Dragica (pronounced "Drag-ee-ta") Janketic-Carlin is a Croatian painter who lives and works in London. I was fortunate enough to visit her studio in Hackney a few weeks ago, and record a long interview about her life and her work, surrounded by her large abstract paintings. What follows, though long for a blog post, is an edited version of the transcript.
PH: How
would you describe your work?
DJC: It’s about creating the texture and trying to
create the space by minimal means and getting into the perspective of the
colours. It’s about movement and application of paint. That relationship
between mark making and colour makes the painting alive and vibrant.
PH: The first thing I notice when I look at all of your
work is the gesture, of the hand, the arm, the wrist. That seems to be the
basis of all the paintings.
DJC: Yes that’s right. I like to get physically
involved in my work. It’s almost like a performance when I paint. The moment I
get equilibrium between my mind and my hand, I know I can produce things. It
takes a long time to mix the paints, to prepare the surface and work on my
state of mind, but then the execution of my ideas is very quick. I don’t spend
a long time making the work. Each and every one of those paintings is the
product of ten or fifteen hours, so each is finished almost in one breath, but
the preparation maybe took three, four, five weeks. I work on loads of little
studies and I try to plan my paintings, so it’s like building your mind,
searching for the painting within your own process, then you come up to
something that reflects the intensity of your mind. That’s how painting works for
me. It’s equally about understanding the inheritance of visual language that we
have, but at the same time being brave enough to allow yourself the freedom to
play and experiment and find new possibilities in work.
PH: The miniatures, as you call them on your website,
are those the first drafts, the trial runs for some of these paintings?
DJC: Yes. For example these <takes out some small
studies> are experiments for colours and different textures. Working on a
smaller size is more intimate. You have a different state of mind when you work
on a larger painting compared to a smaller painting, so this helps me work on
my focus. When I work on a smaller scale, it’s not as frightening to build up
the space. Not that I’m frightened by a large painting, you know, but it’s just
a different vision. Like looking through a little hole and seeing what’s on the
other side of the door, as opposed to if you actually opened the door.
PH: So how do you arrive at these colour combinations
and balances?
DJC: I like to experiment with all different colours.
I have different dynamics for different times of the year. I think it’s a very
intuitive process. People tell me that green is a very awkward colour to work
with because it suggests organic things, landscapes, and so on. Whereas I can
show you a painting now that has lots of green in it and yet there’s nothing
organic about it. Again I like to change those temperatures and metaphors that
certain colours have and put them in a different context. I’m very interested
in making the painting alive just by the combination of colours I use.
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| "Roman Wall Series" - photograph |
PH: You also take lots of photos, too.
DJC: Yes, I take pictures of things that I collect
from my everyday physical reality. I get to see different textures on walls,
buildings, streets, in relation to the colours. On good days certain colours
come out better than on other days. These will be things that I would collect
and come in here and try to convert into my work.
PH: Is there a direct relation between the photos and
the work or is it more ambiguous than that?
DJC: The connection would be in the colours. Then the
awkwardness of this photo, it looks like a body …
PH: Yes, like ripped flesh!
DJC: Then some of them are more … look how fluid that
is. This is another relationship I’m interested in: changing the properties by
making the brush marks different, the movement, making something fluid in a static
form, in order to challenge our perceptions.
PH: This reminds me of something I saw on your website
where you spoke about developing your visual language. Explain a bit more about
how you think your visual language has developed.
DJC: I think it’s always in a flux. Each painting is a
statement of particular awareness that I reached, or a combination of elements
that I’ve gathered, and each new painting is about something else. It’s
ongoing. I don’t think I could every come to the point where I think, Now I’ve created a particular kind of
language, and I’m comfortable with that, and now I’m going to create a series
of paintings in relation to that. Maybe that’s possible, but in every picture I
like to introduce something new. My little studies, if you put them together
they might look repetitive, but each one, each gesture and brush mark in them
is different. And that’s what’s exciting about painting, getting the new
combination of elements in connection to colours and the space and gesture.
These paintings over here are quite dramatic, but I wouldn’t necessarily show
all these paintings in the same space at once.
PH: Are you only aware of the common patterns in your
work when you’re collecting them together for a show?
DJC: Yes. I have about maybe ten paintings that I’ve
been making consciously so I could have them in the same space. I think there’s
a really beautiful story going on.
PH: It’s interesting that you used the word “story” I
relation to abstract painting.
DJC: There’s always a story. It’s not a problem for me.
Abstract painting for me has been the most natural thing in the world. The
moment I made an abstract mark, that was it.
PH: At the same time you talk about making the viewer
aware of “the transcendental nature of objects”, and of “creating order from
the chaos of boundless possibilities.” So abstract art is a way of creating
order as well as ambiguity, for you.
DJC: Absolutely. Recognizing the abstraction, bringing
it to the studio, thinking about it, trying to connect to it with my concept of
life, what I’ve inherited intellectually, the process of my mind: that’s what I
do, that’s what my painting is about, or what I’d like my painting to be about.
PH: Your work is also very beautiful.
DJC: Thank you. I don’t know how you feel when you
create your small drawings or your sculptures, but I think we do have a
relationship with our work. It is about how you feel, what certain colours
reflect for you.
PH: And it’s also the brush – you seem to have a
relationship with the marks made by a brush.
DJC: Yes. I love my brushes. They
are very important.
PH: Do you have lots of brushes?
DJC: Yes, lots of different types <going to a work
table>.
PH: That’s a four inch brush, a six inch. That’s a ten
inch brush.
DJC: Some of these are ten years old, believe it or
not.
PH: Do you have a favourite brush?
DJC: They’re all my favourites <laughs>. I just
need them for different things at different times.
PH: And is it always oil paint for you, never acrylic?
DJC: I used to use acrylic but for the type of work I
do, I like the flexibility of oils. You have a longer drying time, but also the
tonality of paint you can reach in oil colours is incomparably different to
acrylics. And always with every new painting I discover a new colour. That’s
very important for me.
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| "Manifestation", oil on canvas, 2009 |
PH: So abstract art for you is not a method, a theory,
a science, it’s a form of personal expression.
DJC: I’m not an art historian, so maybe there is a
theory to abstract art, but to me it’s the most natural thing in the world.
That’s how I see things, that’s how I’ve been making work for the last twenty
years. I would find other things more theoretical than this, because I can’t be
objective about abstract painting – it’s
all I know.
PH: Where did you go to art school?
DJC: Chelsea Art School.
PH: Did you move from Croatia as a child?
DJC: No, I came specifically to go to art school. I came
over when I was 18 for just a couple of months, and I met this guy, a sculptor,
who was talking about going to art school. I spent most of the time in his
studio, making things myself, so I applied to art school, too, and I got a
place. Going back home after that was a no-no, I just wanted to stay here and make
art and get on with things. And after I finished my MA , I found a studio, I
fell in love, I got involved in work, exhibitions. I never intended to stay in
London: it’s just that one thing led to another, then fifteen years later, I
realized that London is home.
PH: There’s a big debate in the US at the moment about
whether art school is worthwhile. I went to art school, you went to art school,
so what would you say to that?
DJC: I loved going to art school. I could spend my
entire life at art school! The reason I say that is because you learn not how
to make work, but how to think. That’s a priceless experience. Never in your
life will you find people who will pay so much attention to you. To make you question
yourself, to help you find your own process of thoughts, to encourage you in
that. For example, one time I was working forever on a painting and I needed
more space so I kept adding paper to the picture, making the space bigger and
bigger. And my tutor came by and he said: “Dragica! Come over here!” And he
literally dragged me by the arm to the storage space and gave me a ten feet by
eight feet canvas, and it was absolutely a major discovery for me. I’ve never
looked back since then. I just knew painting would be the thing I would spend
most time thinking about. To come to the idea of making a large work as a
student was quite frightening, but that tutor gave me the confidence I needed,
because he thought it would be a good size to work on. I also remember trying
to create this fluid mark, using lots of raw materials, and going completely
spare day after day. And I had another tutor say to me: Now Dragica think about
what you’re doing. You can’t make water float in the air if you have a
container, can you? And she walked off. And just that basic simple comment made
me switch my process. She must have observed me for days before she lost the
plot and stepped in. And that’s why art school is valuable, because you get
encouragement and you learn to think. And you learnt to be self critical, which
is very important if you are making art.
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| Click image to display larger version |
PH: So you’re still self critical even now?
DJC: All the time.
PH: How does that come out – in erasing, reworking?
DJC: Not everything works out and you have to be brave
enough to say, I’ve really messed this painting up. The more you work, the more
you reach creative maturity, and now I know how not to mess things up. But
things happen, and you have to see that. If something is not working out you
have to see it, be self critical, and move on to something else.
PH: Does that still happen a lot to you?
DJC: Less and less, I’m proud to say, but it does
happen. I think that some paintings are more successful than others. That’s
true for any artists, or writers, or whatever you’re doing.
PH: So how have you survived as an artist since
leaving art school?
DJC: Well, I show my work in group and solo
exhibitions. I show wherever I can, I organize my own spaces. I enter
competitions, apply for residencies. I also run workshops, teach people how to
paint, all sorts of things. But I always fit those things around my studio time.
Most artists in London, whether they have great galleries representing them or
not, they still do other things, because these days not all work is sellable.
Fame and money and so on can be a consequence of the work, but should never be
the prime reason for making it. It’s not sustainable. You don’t make work just
to make it acceptable to people, you make work because you need to. You live,
you see the world around you, then you come to your studio and try to introduce
a different perspective to life. For me that’s a fundamental reason.
PH: Have you ever thought of not being an artist?
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